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Neeson's character would have a shade of grey philosophy on the Force. That meaning he wouldn't view it from simply a Light versus Dark perspective. He is also a mature Jedi who looks after the younger knights. He is also second to Yoda in the chain of command. >>>The
shade of grey thing is what gets me. This seems to say that
And from another unofficial source: Qui-Gon will have a hand in causing the rift between Anakin and Obi-Wan Kenobi, either directly or indirectly, perhaps convincing Obi Wan to train Anakin early. (TheForce.Net) >>>How
does he cause the rift between Anakin and Obi Wan?
Another snippit. Anakin will have a best friend who turns out to be more evil than Darth Vader. >>>Anakin
has an evil best friend. Could it be Qui Gon Jinn?
another bit: The character that is primarily responsible for the fall of the Republic will be one that we are very familiar with, yet won't be Vader or any other "dark" character. This character will ignore plainly visible signs, and will not heed their meanings due to his/her ideals. >>>Next
bit. This means a central character, one with principles.
In
Episode III, the Jedi Council changes, the true source of evil is revealed,
Luke and Leia are born, Palpatine becomes the Emperor and Obi-Wan "screws
up everything for everyone."
Hmm... Comments please" |
| Roderick
wrote: "Two things:
"Anakin will have a best friend who turns out to be more evil than Darth Vader" - this was just a vague rumor... "Anakin has an evil best friend. Could it be Qui Gon Jinn?It's supposed to be his father, apparently confirmed by Neeson last week." - Neeson didn't confirm this: read the prequel news at Jedinet to see how this rumor began... I just want to remind us all that we should be careful in quoting rumors. Remember the 'confession' of Deepthroat? Well, some of these rumors might be made up as well. Could anyone find the exact quotes of McCallum or other official quotes that support the above theory?" |
| Adam
wrote another thing that concerns Qui-Gon:
"I was always under the impression that yoda trained Obi-Wan. "I
thought I could train him (Anakin) as well as yoda trained me, I was wrong."
Now all the web pages seem to be saying that Qui-Gon Jinn trains Obi-wan. Did Lucas forget the Qbi-wan's line in ROTJ, are all the rumor mongers getting carried away, or am I just not remembering things correctly? Maybe they (Qui-Gon Jinn and Yoda) train Obi-wan together, I dunno. I'm interested in your opinions." |
The quote: "The character that is primarily responsible for the fall of the Republic will be one that we are very familiar with, yet won't be Vader or any other "dark" character. This character will ignore plainly visible signs, and will not heed their meanings due to his/her ideals". (This came from Knowles site originally, I believe) This is obviously talking about Obi-wan. I base this on the next two quotes: 1) "my foolish pride had severe consequences from the galaxy" 2) "In Episode III, the Jedi Council changes, the true source of evil is revealed, Luke and Leia are born, Palpatine becomes the Emperor and Obi-Wan "screws up everything for everyone." The character "primarily responsible" for the fall doesn't have to be evil. It won't be a "dark" character. IMO, this is Ben." |
| Talorcan
wrote: "I don't think Jamie Wire's "character
primarily responsible for the fall of the old Republic" is Qui-Gon. There's
no mention that this character is actually evil. In fact he is "not Vader
or any other dark character"; he just fails to act, or acts wrongly,
because of his principles, and is "one we are very familiar with". Now
the only possibilities here are Ben Kenobi, Yoda, Owen Lars and Bail Organa
- I presume it means characters we are ALREADY familiar with from ANH,
ESB, and ROTJ. I think the fault must lie with Obi-Wan.
"I thought I could train him (Anakin) as well as yoda trained me. I was wrong.... My foolish pride had severe consequences from the galaxy." Obi-Wan's self-righteous idealism is what leads to Anakin's transformation into Vader. Without Vader, the Emperor could not have destroyed the Jedi. Without Vader, the Empire could not have been maintained. And it is Obi-Wan's fault. As to Qui-Gon, I think he's important as a mentor-figure (no-one takes Yoda seriously) but he isn't (apparently) important enough to be a member of the Jedi Council. Also, his "shades of grey" philosophy - for which read cynicism? - will probably reflect the more mature, less clear-cut, attitude of the Prequels. But he remains the most enigmatic figure among the heroes of the new trilogy." |
| Jamie
Wire wrote: "more
unfounded rumours:
""
Coming Attrations has received a report that when Anakin wins the pod race,
his prize is anything wants in Watto's junk shop, and Anakin chooses R2D2.
Another child, Seek, teases and confronts Anakin about R2D2, as he
knows that they are poor and can't afford a droid (Seek doesn't know about
the pod race win). Enraged, Anakin uses the Force to push Seek violently
into a wall to Qui Gon's displeasure. This is where he tries to teach him
about the nature of the Force, and not to be tempted by the darkside. Anakin
takes little notice of Qui Gon, as Qui Gon-Jinn is his stepfather. Anakin
claims that Qui Gon is not his father, and he does not respect him. That
is why Anakin forms a close bond with Obi Wan later in the film.""
>>this would seem to support the "father figure" role, but Anakin doesn't care for Qui Gon at all. Admittedly, it does flatten my theory about Qui Gon being evil (slightly) as obviously Anakin doesn't like Jinn. But I still stand by it." |
| Deepthroat
wrote: "The
rumor about Neeson's character being the cause of the rift bewteen Anakin
and Ob-Wan was started by Truefan at Jedinet's website (it can be found
way in the back of their prequel news archive). I'm probably in the
minority on this, but I believe the rumor to be false, and I don't believe
that Truefan is the real thing. Yes, he's been right about a lot
of things, but then again so was I. He's been more careful recently,
but if you look at some of the scoops he was reporting last year, they
have been blatantly contradicted. He reported casting rumors for
ep. 3 (Vader and Bail Organa) before ep. 1 casting was even announced,
and I think recent comments by McCallum & Gurland seriously undermine
him (common-sense: would Lucas really be looking for the guy to wear
the Vader suit (3 years hence) now ? I know what you're thinking,
but no, Truefan was talking about Vader, not older Anakin). He also
reported that Bail Organa was only a small role in ep. 3. Adrian
Dunbar's comments would seem to invalidate this as well. Trufan also
reported that filming would begin in September. Around the same time
he reported this, I wrote to Harry Knowles that filming would begin around
June/July and end in September (another spy of Harry's had provided the
September date earlier--I guessed (correctly) that it was the end date,
to go along with my theory/hope that the film would be released in 1998,
and I suppose that Truefan guessed it would be the start date, and guessed
wrong). I also recall that it was Jedinet which claimed that LFL
had ordered them to remove "sensitive" prequel info from their site--specifically,
it referred to dreadnaughts, Boba Fett as a young man, and Concord Dawn.
None of this strikes me as being particularly sensitive, and, other than
the dreadnaughts, none of it strikes me as having the ring of truth.
I really don't mean this to be a slam on Jedinet, Garindan, or Truefan
himself (I'm certainly in no position to pass judgment), but since we're
in the business of weeding out truth from falsehood, I think these points
should be brought to light.
While I'm at it, I finally found the original source of the "shade of gray" rumor about Qui-Gon which I've seen reprinted word-for-word on countless web sites. It appeared in an anonymous post of 6/10/97 on Corona and included the suggestion that Neeson's character "influences Obi-Wan to train Anakin prematurely." I must also point out that I described Neeson's character as "ambiguous" in a AICN post way back in April, no doubt contributing to the prevalence of this rumor. Also of note, the rumor about the airbus being "set upon by five or six black ships . . .with sweeping fins" first appeared on Corona on 2/16/97, as reported by a computer workstation salesman who got too see the film's opening sequence while making a sale (uh-huh). I also researched some of the Bothan Spy/Imperial Droid's old reports, considering that it's pretty certain he's the real deal, and found these bits--Qui-Gon is Anakin's father, and Anakin builds C3PO. I would take this practically as confirmation of these rumors, but he also claimed, though, that Terence Stamp played an alien in a swamp sequence (maybe he was thinking of Brian Blessed?) and that Naboo was situated on Coruscant (highly unlikely). Still, he was the one to break all the inside photos, the call sheets, the cast lists and character names, so who knows? I also wanted to bring another interesting old scoop to your attention, one that predated the first mention of Naboo by about 2 weeks. Here it is, from AICN 9/22/97: "Meanwhile on the Prequel front I had a report come in from the worlds being created just moments from London in a magical village of imagination known as Leavesden. Once again I must call the validity of this report into question as this is a first time spy, who I will identify as Mr Skellington, a rather tall gaunt character that is known for his derring do. Mr Skellington witnessed what were called the BADUO scenes. These scenes have some very definate spoiler situations, but know this. I have NO clue how this fits with what we know about the other stuff that other spies have told us. Once again read with a grain of salt, and as Lucas said on the Star Wars dot com site, don't believe anything till you see it on the screen. Good advice, I believe it. From these sequences Mr Skellington could tell that the young queen is a figure head with no real power you see the republic stands on alot of protocol, which in the long run dooms it. The jedi are on hand for her coronation twelve to be exact, all strong with the force but totally dependent upon the senate to direct them, this frustrates some of the younger jedi who crave adventure, they wish to join the growing battle that is taking place beyond the BADUO system a not so young senator (WHO WE ALL KNOW) is trying to slyly force the jedi to use thier power to "right the wrongs of the present insurection" all should be fine what with the new leader (QUEEN) leading her subjects. One young jedi and main guard to th queen OBI-WAN who is at this point really just a diplomat who is "force sensitive" detects something amiss and makes it his mission to alert the powerful JEDI SKYWALKER that all is not well in BADUO.On his journey to tell the great warrior he is followed by Darth Maul and the dangerous sith coven. There were people from MATTEL in on the last day of our shoot, and they seemed very excited." Badou, Naboo--easy to mix up. This scoop would support a theory I've had for some time--that Palpatine is the senator from the queen's planet (think about it). The scoop also seems to intimate that the film begins with the coronation on Naboo, which jibes with the most recent reliable reports from Cinescape. The "Jedi Skywalker" would be Qui-Gon Jinn Skywalker. I also believe this is one of he first mentions of Darth Maul, a name later confirmed by Bothan Spy/Imperial Droid. If Skywalker is on Tatooine and Maul follows Kenobi, then it would follow that Maul follows Kenobi to Tatooine, and thus this rumor jibes with the Maul/Jinn duel photos on Tatooine. Perhaps the invasion begins soon after Kenobi leaves, and Padme escapes later with Panaka and co. to catch up with Obi-Wan on Tatooine. And maybe Obi-Wan gets sidetracked by Maul, and then meets up with the Jedi Council who escape to Coruscant. And maybe . . .well, in any case, it's an interesting and overlooked scoop. Anyway, sorry about the length, but once I started combing the different site archives, I couldn't help myself. Hope it was interesting!" |
Your whole post was great. It reminded me of the many rumors that have been flying around for the past year. I had forgotten about the "Badu" post a Harry's site. Looking back now this is a SIGNIFICANT rumor. You're post almost (but not quite) makes up for your past wrong-doings. : > ) |
| JEV
wrote: "I think this subject brings on
a very important question about episode 1:
Is Qui-Gon Jinn the father of Anakin? It seems a lot will interact with that notion. It will certainly have a big role to play concerning the relationship between Anakin and Obi-wan, espacially in it's beginning. About the shade of gray part, I'm uncertain, it seems to go against being "venerable" as he is suppose to be(GL said so). Is role in Anakin's downfall may not be as big as some think, espacially if he dies in the first as it as been speculate." |
Perhaps some one more knowledgeable than I could make a checklist of rumors about Qui-Gon, when they were started, and by whom, and how many grains of salt we should take them with. *nudge, nudge Deepthroat*" |
Perhaps the Neeson character, if he 'abandons' anyone, is in a very complicated situation. Say he was needed elsewhere, and left his family on Tatooine, where unbeknownst to him, they were sold into slavery. While this might make him out to be a Jedi of the Light Side, Lucas could also insert overtones that he's very independant, and doesn't want to be tied down-- sort of a selfish aspect if you've got a kid to think about. So, if you're a do-gooder that happens to be a rather negligent father, something that DOESN'T naturally come out of being a do-gooder, where does that put you in that scenario, Light or Dark? Of
course, this is all simple speculation. Perhaps Qui-Gon is just an officially
'light' Jedi of a minority philosophy-- that the Dark Side's freedom should
somehow be incorperated with the Light's static immobility.
|
| Jamie
Wire wrote: "How can Kenobi be the evil
when he is referred to elsewhere in the sentence below? It has to be a
character that doesn't survive (or Vader) because Obi Wan just screws it
all up. he cannot be the evil as i first said.!
"In
Episode III, the Jedi Council changes, the TRUE SOURCE OF EVIL is revealed,
Luke and Leia are born, Palpatine becomes the Emperor and Obi-Wan "screws
up everything for everyone.""
The "character that destroys the galaxy kind of" could be Ben. It might not be though. From the prequel FAQ The character that is primarily responsible for the fall of the Republic will be one that we are very familiar with, yet won't be Vader or any other "dark" character. This character will ignore plainly visible signs, and will not heed their meanings due to his/her ideals. This could mean one we are very familiar with from the first trilogy. Otherwise it is Kenobi. According
to Corona's Coming Attractions, Neeson's character is is a mature Jedi,
who has a "shade of grey" perspective of the force. This "grey" ability
is not to be confused with a Dark Jedi, but this would seperate Neeson's
Jedi from other Jedi who walk in the Light Side. Neeson may be the one
who influences Obi-Wan to train Anakin prematurely. This would contribute
a major factor to Anakin's fall into the Dark Side.
A New Jedi Master (Neeson). The character will most likely be named Qui-Gon Jinn. Neeson will be playing the leader of the Jedi, trained by Yoda and comparable to "a good Emperor and Vader. Variety reports that Neeson's character is a master Jedi Knight and the main character in Episode I. Neeson will play a role much like the one Guinness played in Star Wars, a mentor for the young knights. Additional reports say that his character is "the leader of the troops." George Lucas said that he was looking for an actor who could portray nobility as well as calm and strength, and that Neeson was one of the few who could do it. In
an Interview in the December 1997 Star Wars Insider, Neeson offered several
bits of information about his character:
gives a picture of this character, I suppose. |
| Christian wrote: "about this oh-so-weird name: Qui-Gon Jinn... could "Qui-Gon" be a Jedi rank? "Qui-Gon" Jinn Skywalker would make lots of sense. The same goes to "Obi-Wan". I've heard this speculation before, and it makes much more sense than the Ben-clone stuff. "Obi-Wan" could be a rank. Don't we have the "Darths", after all?" |
As a former "spy" myself, let me say that one of the few "tricks" of the trsde is to try to be as ambiguous as possible, basing what you say on reliable information and then adding a little bit of your own. I honestly believe that the "gray" Qui-Gon rumors ultimately lead back to comments I made on Harry's sit in April '97, shortly after the Neeson casting was announced in Variety, where I called the character "ambiguous." At the time, Harry was convinced (I think) that I was the real thing, and said as much many times on his site. Others, taking me as real, would then extrapolate the "shade of gray" thing from my comments, and the whole rigamarole began. As I said before, the "shade of gray" rumor came from anonymous scoops that are unconfirmable. No reliable source, not any of the one's listed above, nor any of the interviews with Lucas, McCallum, Neeson, McGregor, et al. has given any indication at all that the "shade of gray" rumor has any truth to it. The closest thing we have to that are Lucas commments in the Star Wars screen saver, which alludes to "betrayal among friends" and not knowing who the good guys and the bad guys really are. This is what I based a lot of my rumors on, and I'm sure it has either directly or indirectly produced many of the other rumors floating around. Of course, this is not to say that the rumor might not ultimately turn out to be true." |
| Gillespee
wrote: "Well, first I mean to clarify
a little. I didn't not mean to say that any force user you encounter
will be inherently dark or light, I meant
that there is a spectrum, and people are constantly moving on it. i.e. Towards the end of ROTJ, Vader is pretty dang dark. Very low, but he changed his ways at the very end, and died a peaceful death, not a violent force explosion like the Emperor. Perhaps where you are in the spectrum is decided by how fast you are moving. Vader was moving fast, so he died happy and could join the Jedi "ghosts" at the celebrations (Remember, the Emperor wasn't there). So if you are a Jedi or a Dark Jedi depends on how fast you are moving and in what direction multiplied by the square of your present position. In other words, it's really complicated to figure out if a Jedi is dark or light. Basically, what I am trying to say with this is that you can't camp in the middle. There is no gray area, a fine line which is easily crossed, but no gray area. I'd like to present another popular solution to "gray-area" problem. Perhaps this just means that he skirts dangerously close to the dark side (i.e. Luke scrambling the pilots minds in the Thrawn trilogy, or choking the Gammorean guards in ROTJ, which he felt bad about), but that he has enormous self control and easily skirts back from the line, far into the light side of the spectrum where it is harder to be tempted. Comments? And as for a couple of Gonk's suggestions: >Obi-Wan lies to Luke about his father, is the one who makes the fatal mistake about Anakin. Obi-Wan on the Dark Side because he didn't tell Luke about his father? He was protecting him from the Emperor for crying out loud! And as for training Anakin, he just made a simple mistake, overestimating himself. How is that using the force while in anger, fear, or aggression? > Yoda tells Luke to forget about his friends Yoda told Luke not to go save his friends, why was it? Oh yeah, because there was a Dark Lord of the Sith, firmly entrenched in the Dark Side, ready to tempt Luke to the Dark Side or kill one of his two last hopes. He told Luke not to save his friends for the same reason parents tell their kids no to drink and drive. To save them injury or death (or falling to the Dark Side (beer is of the Dark Side BTW). He wasn't keeping Luke from saving his friends, he was trying to save Luke's friends from seeing Luke turned into a monster. >Luke turns to the Dark Side at the very end, albeit temporarily. While Luke did look like he was using the Dark Side of the Force at the end of the lightsaber battle, as soon as he realized what he was doing, he threw away his lightsaber and surrendered rather than be consumed, instantly returning to the Light Side of the spectrum. >And Vader....Geez, Vader just flip-flops back and forth, doesn't he? No debate there, but as I said before, it's possible to quickly move back and forth on the spectrum, though every time you do, the Dark Side pulls a little harder." |
"While Obi-Wan made many overtures about protecting Luke from the knowledge that Vader was his Father, I don't really get the details of how this supposedly 'protected' him. How would Luke have been in any more danger to the Emperor if he had known the man was his father than if not? Perhaps there would have been a trepadacious moment when Vader kills Obi-Wan on Luke's part, but Ben couldn't have forseen that. What
Ben not telling Luke about his father seemed to me was Ben just not
As
for Yoda, his advice to Luke is intended to keep him from the Dark
If
you want to put this into context, think of 'Air Force One' (Solo
Qui-Gon
Jinn may very well by 'good' and on one side of the line in some
|
"I was reading some of the postings about the role of Qui-Gon Jinn in the prequels and came across one by Christian. He writes: "could Qui-Gon be a Jedi rank? "Qui-Gon" Jinn Skywalker would make lots more sense". This to me, at first, appeared wrong; not the part about Qui-Gon being a Jedi rank, but the fact that he is a Skywalker. I was never a fan of the "Qui-Gon is Anakin's father" rumour. I thought, "Qui-Gon Jinn Skywalker! might as well be Qui-Gon Jinn Kenobi!" Then it struck me how much this wild idea may actually fit into place. Suppose for a moment Qui-Gon is Ben Kenobi's true father, (he is old enough). His wife is dead, and he falls in love with, and marries, Shimi Skywalker, (she may take his name and become Shimi Kenobi, but Anakin will not, he will still remain Anakin Skywalker). This would make Obi-wan Anakins step brother as well as Owen, (if he is actually Obi-wan's brother). The dramatic events of episode one take place and Shimi and Qui-Gon are killed, leaving Anakin, who is only 8 years old, alone with his two step brothers, Obi-wan and Owen. Obi-wan, goes against his brothers judgement and decides to train Anakin in the ways of the force, involving him in the clone wars, (Obi-Wan says in ANH: "he didn't hold with your fathers ideals, he thoughth he should have stayed here and not gotten involved"). At the end of the prequels (in episode 3) Obi-wan has failed, and his step brother Anakin has turned to the dark side. Owen blames him for this but would naturally take care of Luke who will infact be his nephew; Owen will be Luke Skywalkers real Uncle! This theory goes a long way towards solving on major problem I've had with the relationship between Anakin and Obi-wan given their age difference, and would add to the dramatic events in ANH when Obi-wan is cut down by his own step brother! It will account for Obi-wan, perhaps being the guardian of Queen Padme, coming to seek out his father (Qui-Gon) during Naboo's time of need; therefore the first time he meets his step brother Anakin is only 8 years old but is already a great pilot. It also explanes why Owen was willing to take Luke into his home. However it does not solve the "Anakin and Shimi are slaves" problem. I know this seems like a wild idea and is probably full of holes, (e.g. how does Beru fit in, and why did Anakin not stay with Owen instead of going off to help fight the Nimodians), but I would like to know your views on this speculation." |
"to C Swift: my main problem with your very plausible theory is that we have heard various rumours about Ben Kenobi not appearing in the film until half way through. It seems, and I'm not saying that this is in any way true, that Kenobi isn't on Tatooine, but that doesn't mean he didn't come from there in the first place. Did Ewan McGregor go to Tunisia? Anyone know?" |
| Veasna
Hem wrote:
"He could be Ben's(Obi-Wan Kenobi)father,because his Jedi name (Qui Gon Yinn) matches his name (OB1 Kenobi) in both Chinese and Japanese." |
"An earlier posting convincingly suggested that 'Obi-Wan' and 'Qui-Gonn' may be titles or ranks. If it appears that 'Darth' is a term for the Dark Side / the Sith, then why can't the Good Side have a similar notation : thus, in time Luke may yet receive a title in line with his Jedi brethren. Also,
on the issue of where Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gonn, and Anakin stand in
|