Jom wrote: "I would like to add to SNS22's statement about the Emp. I've asked this before on message boards and have gotten some good responses.  So I'll go ahead and try here.  How is it that someone with powerful dark side powers such as Palpatine gain power in the Old Republic with the Jedi Council right there on Coruscant watching over things?  This makes no sense.  As a matter of fact how could Palpatine even get into the Senate (let alone become Chancellor) under the Council's nose?  How could they have not even noticed someone with such power?"

Paul Potiki wrote: "I don't believe it is official that George Lucas has decided to make the appearance of Palpatine a surprise by episode 2, as we all know he's being played by Ian McDiarmid again. I believe it was just a rumour. 
  
BUT! It may have been a misconstrued rumour. This is my theory: 
  
In ROJ, we are introduced to TWO Twi'leks, i.e Oola, and Bib Fortuna. In the SE, a third one, a dancer, was also included. This leads me to believe that they are a more significant race in the Star Wars Universe than say a Gammorean, or Nikto. 
  
Note the significant features of Bib Fortuna: 
  
1: The Head-tails. 
2: Pale skin. 
3: Strange coloured eyes. 
4: Knobbly forehead. 
5: Sharp teeth 
  
Note also the significant features of Palpatine. 
  
1: A hood covering his entire head. 
2: Pale skin. 
3: Strange coloured eyes. 
4: Knobbly forehead. 
5: Sharp teeth. 
  
See? See? How can it be any less than the facts???? Well, it'll be a surprise to most if it turned out to be so, wouldn't it."

'Streen Bean' wrote: "Uh.. you could be on to something here, Paul. But Streen Bean dunno how to explain his anti-alien bias then.  

Streen Bean thinks that what Lucas means by 'keeping Palpatine's identity a secret' is by not having him go around saying "Everything is going according to my design... muahahaha..." The same way we see Anakin going to Vader by whatever pressures induce him to do so, Palpatine goes from ambitious, normal-looking-for-whatever-species-he-is Senator to that nasty dude from ROTJ. 

As for getting powers like that past the Council, it could be that something *big* is keeping the Council's attention, but then again Bean dunno how something could be so major as to preoccupy the Council that much.  Could be something of Palpy's evil design specifically put in place to distract the Council... any thoughts? Coherent ones are preferred.

Granted, there will be a _Senator_ Palpatine, but I think the true surprise is that the eventual Emperor will be a Dark Jedi (or a Sith) who takes advantage of the Clone Wars situation distracting the Jedi to usurp power. How he gets the name, I don't know. 

Maybe it'll be similiar to the Roman Council when Antony usurped power and took the name Octavius after he conquered the actual Octavius (forget the name). Maybe the Chancellor dies and the Senator takes over, then he is killed by a dark Jedi who takes his name. Who knows? 

There's also talk that the Sith "religion" is different from the Jedi, similiar to how we have different religions embracing the concept of a higher being, that we call God. The Sith have different ways of using the force (for selfish purposes) than the Jedi. 

I think there are actually *2* different councils. 1 for the Jedi to oversee their Knights, and 1 called the Sith Council to oversee the Dark Jedi who fall from grace, or are not admitted into the Jedi Ranks. Either that or it will be the "new police" that helps enforce the Empire in either the second half of Ep.2 or Ep. 3. 

This would explain the rumors of the council wearing Sith helmets and robes. I wouldn't be surprised if Anakin was rejected by the Jedi for being too extreme or angry. He would then become a Dark Jedi and get promoted thru the Ranks to become a Dark Lord on the Sith Council (like a Jedi Master) 

The real Emperor built up his Empire by ripping off the cloning technology to replicate themselves to fight the Jedi that eventually weakens the Republic to make room for Vader and the Sith to act out the inquisition that slaughters the Jedi in Episode 3. 

Note: There is like a 10 year gap between Ep.1 and Ep.2.  I believe that the focal point of the war in Ep. 1 revolves around Cloning Technology somehow, and someone gets ahold of the plans, and uses it to build his army over the 10 years before Ep.2 . This would explain how he built it up. Maybe the Emperor created his army by cloning himself under the delusion of "God creating man in his image" and shunning all races and species not in his likeness.  That would be the act of a madman. 

I don't think the Madalorians play as a big role in the movie as many believe. Granted, we will see them throughout the Trilogy, but only as "organized military race" similiar to the Spartans, who sent every male into the military for training as a child. 

I believe they will play a big role in Vader's Jedi Execution in Ep. 3, since Vader warns Boba Fett "No disintegrations" in ESB, which suggests they have some kind of history together. 

All of these things will be major _subplots_.  Lucas has a history of tying subplots together instead of focusing on one major plotline. 

For example, in ESB, we see a battle on Hoth, the plot splits into 2 with Luke going to Dagobah, and Han and Leia fleeing Vader. The plot intertwines when Luke goes to Bespin to save Han and Leia, but the subplot is still there b/c he is fighting Vader while Leia escapes with Lando and Chewie. 

In ROTJ, we see the same fragmentation with Dagobah, then the bombing of the shields for the DS, the space battle, and the duel with Luke and Vader. All 3 happens at the same time. 

I see the Jedi struggle in the CW being separate from the Emperor's rise to power, though it is tied together, but there will be many plot points we never thought of, that he would intertwine into the major sub-plots. (i.e. Ewoks in ROTJ helping bomb the shields) 

All this is speculation of course, but I think we will see some of this stuff happening. Does anyone else agree (or disagree)?

'Streen Bean' wrote: "Streen Bean had more thoughts!  What if Palpatine doesn't get *really* powerful until *after* the Jedi Council dies?  He could get in cahoots with Anakin/Vader somehow and have him start the Purge with the Council and *then* start getting into Electricity As A Hobby- And So Much More! Then Vader says "Bummer, the Council's dead, guess I'll hafta take over." (See ruminations on the plotline.) Anyway, Palpatine doesn't have to hide his powers from the Council because he doesn't have any powers to speak of- though this doesn't really explain how P. keeps V. leashed.  Maybe because P's just a really sympathietic kinda guy and Vader takes a likin' to him."

HL wrote: "Given that Palpatines identity is most likely going to be a secret, I am assuming that the Palpatine we see in episode 1 IS the same character we see in ROTJ.......with one small difference.  The difference I am alluding to, is that Episode 2 is the chapter in which his true identity will most likely be revealed.  The Clone Wars take place in Episode 2. Now don't you all think that with all this cloning going on, one of the major characters will be cloned (For whatever reason......they may die, for example).  I think it is a certainty, that one of the major characters will be cloned, or will clone somebaody etc. etc. 
  
Anyway, it is unlikely that the Emperor will go by a different name at first, I think.  A lot of people have been saying that he will go by a different name and then change his name to Palpatine by Episode 2.  I think it is much  more likely that Palpatine will die, and he will be cloned, with the clone becoming the Emperor.  Or perhaps the Palpatine in Episode 1 (evil man that he is) will clone himself a few times, hence we don't know which clone will be the Emperor !  Now, this probably won't be true, but I am betting that the Emperor has SOMETHING to do with clones !"

Paul Potiki wrote: "I've been on a bit of a holiday, so have only just got back to catch up with what's been happening in "Discussion". Boy, it all happens when you've turned your back, huh? Well, to answer Streen Bean (???) 's points: 
  
What better way to hide your anti-alien bias than be an alien yourself? Actually, it's fairly common historically for totally mental megalomaniacs to despise their very own race. 
  
Perhaps the plan is this: in the first prequel there is known to be a powerful person making rumblings behind the scenes, orchestrating these attacks by Dark Jedi and Sith (is there a difference? I'm not up with the play on Sith so if anyone can clarify that would be great...) on various, seemingly random people - but not random at all, as it's Luke and Leia's future parents he's targeting - but nobody knows who it is. And the Twi'Lek on the Jedi Council known as Senator Palpatine appears perfectly innocent. 
  
(Side note: the casual audience member has no idea that the Emperor's name is Palpatine. Heck, I don't even know how to pronounce it!) 
   
In the second prequel, Palpatine wishes to bring down the Republic, and so shapes the Council so that they are all on his side and he gets voted in as leader. He destroys the republic from the inside, styles himself Emperor, and creates a new Galactic power. But in order to be successful at it, he needs to destroy the "police force", and sends out his forces to wipe out all traces of the Jedi. 
  
Read the Prologue to the "A New Hope" novelisation by Alan Dean Foster. It's all there in better words than I can describe. 
  
In another point, re: cloning. 
George Lucas approves or disapproves of anything that affects his main characters within the Dark Horse comics and Ballantine Novelisations. He doesn't read them, but he can vetoe anything that doesn't fit with his designs for the Star Wars universe's future. Therefore the idea in the Dark Empire stories that the Emperor is just one of many clones obviously didn't jar at all with GL's vision. And may indeed have fit in rather perfectly. 
It's possible, and indeed probable, that when George called the mysterious battle that Obi Wan and Anakin fought in "The Clone Wars", it was because they sounded really cool. Well, now he has to justify the name. Somehow cloning has relevance, and it's probably over the Emperor's palns to clone the perfect race, a-la Hitler's breeding a perfect race. Seems likely to me."

Gumby wrote: "Just thought I'd dropa line on my take on the Palpatine plot line.  There are a few rumors floating aroung the net that need to be dicussed.  The first is that way back sometime Harry Knowles got a letter from George Lucas and I believe he said that the clone wars don't start up until Ep. 2 and they concern the cloning of the Jedi.  This would knock down all the speculation that Palpatine clones himself, or makes an army for himself, i.e. the "stormtroopers are clones" rumor.  Of course, this just makes one wonder why he would want to clone the Jedi in the first place.  I believe that he is going to blame the Jedi for all the problems the Republic is suffering and try to turn the people against the Jedi.  He clones them in order to provide a more easily controllable group of guardians.  Remember, the force seems to run in certain families and so cloning force-sensitive types would get you a new group of force wielders.  Second, I don't think that Palpatine is a member of the jedi council.  After all, he is a senato r and so is a member of the Republic senate, not the Jedi council.  This jives with what Lucas wrote in his early drafts as well.  Furthermore, this would give him a strong political position from which  to turn the populace against the Jedi.  Somewhere I heard a rumor that Darth Sideous IS Palpatine (was this from the Wall Street Journal article on the domain names?  If so it's probably wrong).  If Sideous is not Palpatine I would bet that Sideous is the one who trains Palpatine and brings him over to the dark side just as Palaptine brings Anakin over.  Finally, I wouldn't spend too much time wondering how Palpatine could become so strong in the Force right under the Jedi's noses.  He is probably a nobody in Ep. 1 and doesn't become strong until Ep. 2 when the Jedi are busy with the Clone Wars.  Just because you are strong in the Force doesn't mean everyone knows about you. The Emperor and Vader didn't know that Yoda or Ben were still alive and you can't get much stronger than Yoda.  It seems that once you get to a certain strength in the Force you can hide your abilities; it was only when Luke was starting his training that there was a "disturbance" that Vader and the Emperor could detect.  The Jedi will probable detect Palpatine's powers but by the time they can do anything about it it will be too late."

Streen Bean wrote: "Brendan Gremer's scenario- Emperor names himself P. after killing the real P. a la Marc Antony- could definitely happen- it would explain how the J Council wouldn't know about the Emp's powers and would give this previously unknown-to-the-Senate Dark Jedi an illusion of prestige and respect by making everyone think he's a Senator. Bean thinks the Palpatine (pronounced PAL-puh-teen, 'coz he's your pal)-as-a-Twi'lek thing isn't likely: Palpatine isn't a Twi'lek name (though it doesn't matter if he isn't actually Palpatine at all, though it would help his scheme if the real P. *was* a Twi'lek, but he has to wear that hood for a reason- aack!) and Bean also thinks the Twi'leks were around a lot in ROTJ b/c the costumes were easy to make. (Blasphemy! ::smack::)  

No disintigrations? Maybe Fett just pulled one on somebody and claimed to have disintigrated someone when he felt it more in his interest to let the dude live, and Vader did his homework and found out.  

Oh God no clones! Clones bad! Plot device almost as old and tired as Superdoomsday Weapon of the Month! And they give me this wierd buzzy feeling... therefore Bean tries not to think about them and she doesn't know much about clones or any wars they get involved in."

JEV wrote: "Palpatine: a reaction in general. First of all, is the futur emperor beyind the army of clones or does he simply use the chaos of the war to put himself in a position of power? If he is beyind it it would mean he is a man of great wealth, don't you think? Second point, it would seem likely that Palpatine deos have connections with Darth Sideous, since the Jedi purge is not carried out by just anakin/vader, but also by a number of dark jedi working for Palpatine, this from various Star Wars official elements(books,etc.). Which is an indication of some dealings between the Dark Lords and Palpatine, this also makes him rather of rather little concern for the Jedi concil, corrolating with what Gumby said. It could also turn up a nice plot line. Imagine this: a dark jedi, after being cut down by Vader, comes back to the Emperor as an apparition, like Ben to Luke in ESB and ROTJ, and tells him : "When you think you will accomplish your last step for global power(destruction of the rebellion), you will be destroy by a man name Skywalker". The jedi then disappear in laughter. It would explain why Palpatine would want Luke killed(him sending Mara Jade to do the job), because he thinks he might be the one, which, in the end, is really Anakin back to the light.Little note to Paul, just watch ROTJ yesterday and the Emperor doesn't have sharp teeth, there just silvery."

Jom wrote: "To Gumby: 

Just because the Clone Wars are going on doesn't mean the council can't notice a powerful force user.  Especially if this user is on Coruscant itself!!  The Council is NOT off fighting in a war, it is still very much involved on Coruscant.  The Jedi Council really must of "choked" big time, to let Palp gain power! 

About Sidious actually being Palpatine:  I heard at Corona that "Sidious" is a code name for Palpatine.  I'm guessing that in SW1 we will probably see a hologram of Sidious (who gives orders to Maul, Gunray etc) and a seemingly innocent Senator Palpatine.  Then in SW2 we'll be told these two are one in the same.  But there are also rumors that the Senator and "Sidious" are two different people, so your "Mark Antony" theory may be possible."

Nathaniel Reed wrote: "Palpatine is a political animal, more ferocious for being Force sensitive. We know he was a senator, who capitalised on the disintegrating situation to focus power and declare himself Emperor. I believe, therefore, that he would've kept as far away from the Jedi Council as possible, using the Dark Side to manipulate others for his benefit. Once in power, it would have been too late for political rivals and the Jedi to do much about him ; of course, as I've said before, the popular opinion would be swinging against the Jedi by this time, the cause for which I can't think of. 
  
Having links with the Sith [ ie, Dark Jedi ] from early on is a nice idea, especially if he can foresee their help in his ambitions. The disruptive presence of the Sith would help to distract attention from Palpatine's actions. They too, would be a threat to Palpatine, so it would be logical to purge them as well.  
  
Yoda would have been a 'public' figure before he went into hiding. Then about 20 years pass, with no news of the Jedi. Tarkin believed Obi-Wan dead ; the ROTJ novel suggests the Emperor had the same thought. I think it fair to say that neither Palpatine or Vader would have hunted down these two, of whom they 'felt' nothing for such a long time. Don't forget that although Palpatine's strength may be his foresight, his weakness is his overconfidence. 

Gumby wrote: "I think I can settle a number of the speculations that have been posted. Here's a selection from the letter that George Lucas wrote to Harry Knowles (from AICN): 
"To settle the Clone Wars once and for all, the war is important, but will be slightly overshadowed by Palpatine taking advantage of the Jedi's absence to rise to power. The Clone Wars will start in Episode 2 and conclude in Episode 3."------ George Lucas  Now any rumor or theory that conflicts with the above info should be put to rest.------Harry Knowles" 
So I think that Jom's Jan. 11 response to my letter of Jan. 3, where he claimed that the Jedi are still on Coruscant, is somewhat presumptuous. The Jedi are absent and Palpatine uses this to rise to power, according to GL.  Of course, this doesn't prove that the entire Jedi council is absent, but it at least has the virtue of explaining why the council doesn't detect Palpatine."

JOM wrote: "To Gumby: 
I concede the point.  Since we really don't know the "job" of the Jedi Council, I guess that could be off somewhere fighting or whatever.  I just have the impression the Council is more of a governing body or are some sort of advisors, if you will.  There are other Jedi who go out and do the dirty work (ie General Kenobi). 
  
This "concession" assumes that it was actually Lucas who wrote that email to Harry.  Although Harry honestly did believe it was Lucas that is by no means proof that it was.  I personally don't believe it, that is just my opinion."

Anthony Renaud wrote: "I like the idea of assuming of a new name upon declaring oneself Emperor.  I've often felt that the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire will reflect the transition of the Roman Republic into the Roman Empire.  But first a little correction, Marc Antony never changed his name nor was he ever Emperor.  After Ceasar was killed a triumirate of Marc Antony, Octavian (Ceasar's grand nephew) and Aemilius Lepidus ruled Rome.  Then, while Antony was off galavanting through Egypt with Cleopatra, Octavian disposed of Lepidus, and then met and defeated Marc Antony and Cleopantra' navy.  The Senate then began to heap responsibilities of several offices onto Octavian, who eventually declared himself Emperor and changed his name to Augustus. 
  
Thus I have a feeling Palpatine's story may be similar. I have to agree with Paul Potiki who said that the name of the Emperor is not commonly known to people outside of those who read the books.  Thus the 'surprise' Lucas was talking about will only be to those people.  I believe that Senator Palpatine will actually appear, at first, to be a hero of sorts, a voice of reason in the chaos that is the Clone Wars and the fall of the Republic.  I believe that the unsuspecting audience (not us of course) will expect great things from him, as will the Senate, who will heap responsibilities on him.  Offer him the presidency in the galaxy's time of need.  Even young Anakin, who's becoming disillusioned with the moral and social decay and chaos  ingrained into the present system, will find hope in the charismatic senator's words of resurrecting order, seeking him out for guidance even.  Of course, us folks in the know won't be fooled and will hardly be surprised when the big bomb drops that this great senator has other than benign plans and declares himself Emperor.   But Joe Average may be taken in the set up, and quite surprised indeed. 
  
As for the Jedi councill being aware of the senator's force powers, well, maybe not all force users are jedi and regular people with powers in the force aren't entirely uncommon.  Maybe they even approach him with the prospect of training as a jedi, which he politely refuses claiming a lack of time because of his thankless task of getting the Republic 'back on track'.  Or as Gumby put, they realise the danger but his popularity has grown to the point where they can't do anything about it."

HanSolo206 wrote: "I agree  w/ what Anthony Renaud said in reaction 15 about the Senate thinking of him as the saviour of the Republic, but to a point........i remember reading the the person who becomes Emperor is someone we like (here's where i agree w/ it) and a relative of the Senator Palpatine's. Ok once again i must mention the dreaded 2 Palpatines theory, but what if the Senator has a son or a brother that is a Force user and takes advantage of there high ranking relative?"

However, this man is killed somewhere in Episode 2, by some sort of conspiracy, because people want to keep him from the Chancellor's position. "Beware the ides of March" and all that. Someone else then takes over in part 3, invoking the original man's name, and looking like him in appearance enough so that the masses, who are never told of the original man's death, believe him to be the same man, essentially. It is this man who becomes Emperor. 

The Marc Antony counterpart would be Bail Organa or Mon Mothma, and Lepidus some other new character."

Now we are getting somewhere!!  I like both AR's input and Gonk's addition.  But I want to add to Gonk's theory a litte bit.  Let's assume that the original Palpatine had no Force powers.  He gains power though normal channels i.e. he is elected (Note: I believe either Lucas or McCallum has stated that Palpatine actually gets voted into power).  Then once he has gained power, as Gonk has suggested, have Palpatine get knocked off by someone who is strong in the dark side of the Force. This new "Palpatine" can then use his power to influence other Senators and most likely the Military to advance his goals 

This theory also helps  explain why the Jedi Council never saw it coming because the original Palp never had force powers to begin with.  Once the "phony" gets in, the Council is powerless to do anything.  "Palpatine" has the public behind him.  The public will probably view the Council as having "sour grapes" since "Palpatine" has solved the problems that the "great" Jedi Council couldn't."

Okay, so we have a very symapthetic character.  A quiet, unassuming man who, through his diligence and stoic hard work is trying to acheive change during the moral and social decay of the Republic.  Perhaps he's even allied with other senators with similar views, such as Mon Montha, and Bail Organa.  He's likeable, and has no force powers at all. He starts to accumulate power.  Like Octavian managed to convince the Roman senate that external threats necessitated absolute power being grated a single individual in order to acheive quick and decisive responses to the threat, this individual uses the Clone Wars to acheive similar ends.  Now Octavian managed to maintain the external threats, making sure that Rome was never quite out of danger, thus prolonging his stay of power, until he eventually declared himself Emperor, and perhaps our galant senator manages the same.  But, not revealed to later, this individual is no more than a puppet for a master of the dark side of the force, who has manipulated all so that his servant could acheive the presidency.  The Dark master then has his servant declare himself Emperor and seclude himself away from the happenings of the universe, making it rather easy for the Dark Master to simply assume his identity and the throne.  The first pages of the novelization of Star Wars tell of how the Emperor had locked himself away from the cries of the masses and the atrocities that the higher military officials were performing in his name, becoming no more than a figure head.  During this period then, the Dark Master would have ample oppertunity to replace his puppet, and the higher military officials would be performing the Dark Masters wishes all along, having allied themselves with him long before the formation of the Empire. 

I suppose that's as likely a scenario as any, but like I said, I still prefer the single Palpatine idea.  The idea of a "New Order" and "stormtroopers" obviously allude to Nazi-esque leanings of the Empire. I've often pictured Palpatine's rise to power and popularity as parallelling that of Hitler's.  I'm talking propaganda films, Hitler youth, the prestigious Nazi SS and the whole bit.  A lot of decent, young men were woed and taken in by the propaganda, and I've imagined and idealistic, young Anakin Skywalker being among that type to be caught up in the excitement among the masses - 'A New Order was coming! Be a part of it!  No room for Old school popularists!'   I think it adds depth to the myth to make is a historical allegory, but in the end, it's Lucas' puppy, and I look forward to seeing whatever he puts up there."

Consider, when I said 'hero-like' Senator, I only meant that as public perception. Palpatine isn't exactly a puppet, but he's heavily influenced by someone. 

Take the first film: We are introduced to a middle-aged Senator, who is trying to help re-assemble the Republic of old. We are also introduced to this monstrous bad-guy, Darth Sidious. 

By the end of this movie, standing that both characters will survive, the fans would split into two camps on the Palpatine question- some would say it is still McDiarmid, because he's that man, the one they're calling Palpatine. The others would say that it is Darth Sideous, 'cause he's the only one 'bad assed' enough. 

Also, note the entry of Qui-Gon. No, don't worry, i'm not suggesting HE'S the Emperor, but recall the 'shade of grey' rumor, How he's not quite exactly all light-side. Keep that in mind for now, I'll be coming back to it. 

Now, by Episode II, Lucas does both groups amiss. Both men are killed off. We are treated to a scene with this original Palpatine that shows he's not all good, and he's later done away with. But already, he's been forced to lead everything in a certain direction, the propaganda is already beginning, as you stated earlier. He's being controlled by someone, but it wasn't this 'dark master' everyone thought it was. With BOTH their deaths, Episode II leaves us on a TOTAL cliffhanger. This Emperor person has gone into total seclusion by the end of the movie (I'm assuming the information will be relayed, somehow), but isn't McDiarmid DEAD? Isn't Sideous DEAD? The whole thing begins to take on the look of a great murder mystery by the end of the second movie, but all the elements you described are still there- there's a lot of 'New Order' mentality going on. 

Now- Part III. We know it's a Jedi, but whom? 

It's likely from inside the council itself. 

No, not Mace Windu, and obviously not Yoda- some other Jedi, one who has the same 'shade of grey' outlook on the force. However, as the trilogy moves on, we will be recieving VERY subtle hints that this person may be moving toward the Dark Side- A fallen Jedi Master, I guess. There might be a number of 'ploy' characters to go along with them as well. 

This deception doesn't let the people off the hook by EP.III though. There's been a conspiracy, but now this individual has to stay secluded to conceal his identity. Perhaps when he goes out, he assumes the original, McDiarmid identity (which he assumes in ROTJ) but can't keep it on forever. His ranting speeches are less and less- but it doesn't matter. The original Palpatine has gotten the people into a fanatic enough frenzy. He barely utters a sylible of the phrase 'Jedi extermination' and people are coming out of the woodwork to get rid of them for the new Emperor."

JOM wrote: "To James:  That is exactly the problem here.  "...Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot- lickers he had appointed to high office, ..."  this certainly doesn't sound like the Emperor we saw in ROJ, now does it?  That is why many believe there is something going on here more than just a takeover.  But ya never know....."

My point is this - it sounds as if that's just happened.  If episode 3 takes place appx 20 years before ANH, and Palpatine is in power at the end of  episode 3, why does it take so long for him to dissolve the senate? Maybe his prominence isn't fully reached at the end of ep 3.  Just curious."

Valynis, from Drummondville, Québec, Canada wrote: "I see in the discussions that there's a major debate theme discussed there: How Palpatine becomes the Emperor under the Jedi council's nose. I find that funny because the answer seems so obvious to me. I firmly believe Palpatine rose in power by devious ways (corruption, bribes, blackmail,lies, conspiracy, etc...) BUT he didn't use the force for that. I repeat: he didn't use the force to rise above all others senators. 

So? you may say. Well, I reply: If he does not use the force, it's normal that the other Jedi didn't see him come. Because, and it's my main point, you can't see how powerful someone is with the force until this someone uses it. 

You do not agree? Refer to the movies. 

In the Battle of Yavin, Vader is behind Luke's X-Wing. They're somehow in contact. THEN Ben tells Luke to use the force. Luke obeys. THEN Vader realize how the force is strong with this one. And he sounds surprised by the fact, because he sensed it right at this moment. If Jedi (and Dark Jedi) sense the degree of the force in someone just by being in his presence, Vader would have seen it in Luke before. Remember, they were quite close to each other in the landing bay of the Death Star at the arrival of the Falcon. 

You could say: "Well, it's because Ben was there too and Ben's powers are far more developped than Luke's, shadowing them." Nice reply. As a backup, there is this line Vader says about sensing an old presence. My reply is this: As Yoda and Ben said, the force is created by all living things. So everybody, not just Jedi or any force user, creates this energy. What Vader sensed is the "flavour", the "taste" of the force created by Obi-Wan. I take as cash the fact that Anakin and Obi-Wan will spend a lot of time together in the Prequels. Anakin will learn how to use and how to feel the force in the presence of Obi-Wan. So, Kenobi's taste of the force will become quite familiar to Anakin. If Vader is not so sure in the first time, it's because it's been such a long time and he thought anyway that Ben was dead. 

Also, maybe Ben is indeed using the force while he is hiding, like a second nature to him. But the point is that Vader never sensed Luke potential powers. 

Another example, and maybe the best one, is that Vader never sensed Leia's potential power. They spend quite a long time together on the Death Star, and he never felt it. 

Is Leia really that strong with the force? We must believe so. Ben affirms that the force is strong in the Skywalker's family. Luke confirms it in ROTJ on the Ewok bridge. And, most of all, Yoda believes that Leia is potentially powerful enough to handle the task of defeating the Emperor to consider her as "another hope". There is no doubt: Leia's got it. So why did Vader never realized that? Simple: she never expressed her talent. She didn't use the force. 

In my opinion, that's why Ben and Yoda hadn't been found after Ep. 3. That's why Leia and Luke were never spoted by Vader as potential force users. 

So, how did Luke find out about Leia being his sister? Simple: he sensed it in Obi-Wan's mind the way Vader did with Luke's during their last duel. 

Let's go back with Palpatine. "If Vader didn't spot Luke and Leia's force potential, you may say, it's because they were not trained." Legitimate reply. I believe there is only one Palpatine, and he is already much powerful in the dark side of the force in the time of the Prequels. I have no "movie evidence" for what I will say, but I still believe it's pretty logic and I feel this is right. Even if the guy is fully trained, the others can't spot him as long as he doesn't use the force. You know, if you have a special talent, if you never express that talent, nobody will never know. You may be a damn good pianist. But even the best expert in music will never notice if you never play in front of him. I believe it's the same for the force. 
  
But why would Palpatine never use such a effective tool in his rise to power? Because of the Jedi council, of course. The guy has a goal. He wants to rule the galaxy. The timing seems perfect. But, unfortunately, there's this gang of Jedi there that keeps an eye on things. This bunch of force users would get rid of him in no time if they ever discover a single trace of his projects. So, HE HAS NO CHOICE TO OPERATE IN THE DARK, IN SECRECY. And he plays his cards right, being the good guy in front of everybody but arranging the things according to his plans in the shadows. And using the force is out of the question because of those Jedi! 

And he succeed, without using the force. You don't have to be powerful in the force to make a big difference in the world. Take Han. He performs great things and all he can do with a lightsaber is to open tauntauns! ;) 

That's my vision of Palpatine and I think it fits with everything we know."

Nathaniel Reed wrote: "Concerning Palpatine's position in the Old Republic - New Order interim : the prelude in the ANH novel was written by Foster, and way back in '77. IF this is canon, then it could be explained in two ways: either Palpatine deliberately surrounded himself with these controlling boot-lickers', appearing to be isolated, so that *they* could be his scape-goats when *his* actions became unpopular, or they were genuinely a thorn in his side for all of 15 - 18 years *until* he was finally able to dissolve the Imperial Senate prior to the unveiling of the Death Star. 
  
Valynis gives some good arguments. One point, there is the line from Luke, "he can feel when I'm near" - though this could simply be a familial thing - so it doesn't just depend on using the Force. If it does, the aether will be FULL of disturbance from the other Jedi and the Sith, so who would spot the fatefully important one ? 

Of the Imperial Senate - it takes the place of the Republic's Senate for the Emperor's New Order, and is the closest gift of democracy that he offers. The actual level of democacy is moot : those against him ended up working in favour of rebellion."

Valynis wrote: "About Nathaniel Reed's comment: Of course Vader can feel Luke (and vice-versa) when they're close to each others. Like I said, the force is, according to Yoda, created by all living things. Luke and Vader were in close range combat on Bespin. They were alone, one on one. There is no doubt to me that, after this duel, Vader knew how to recognize the "taste" of the force created by Luke.

I know this "taste" of the force may seem strange. Maybe there's a better term to use (I'm a native french speaker). Let me explain this. All beings create this energy called the force. Since everybody is unique in the galaxy, I believe everyone leaves a unique trace in the small part of the force they create. It's like the voice. We all have a different voice. We all create sounds, but they don't sound the same.  It must demands a great deal of talent to feel the "flavour" of someone's force at a long distance, among all others people surrounding them. But I believe Vader and Luke to be strong enough to feel each other in the shuttle scene of ROTJ. And my theory gives an explanation to the comment of the Emperor to Vader. Palpatine did not detect the presence of Luke around Endor. There is no doubt Palpatine is VERY strong in the force. If a Jedi could sense the potential of the force in someone just by being in his presence, the Emperor should have detected the coming of a powerful force user in the sector when Luke arrived. You know, at this time in the chronology of this universe, there is few people who can use the force (3 trained ones, as we know). The arrival of Luke should have attracted the attention of the Emperor. But, as I explained in my previous entry in the discussion, I believe you can only detect the potential of someone only if he uses the force in your presence. Luke wasn't really using the force in that shuttle. His sensing of Vader is not a use of the force. It's just that his mind is more open to this energy that surrounds him. Because he is trained. His training changed his perception of the world. "You're going to step into a larger world" said Ben in ANH (or something like that). Luke was not trained when Alderaan exploded. That's why he didn't feel what Ben felt.

The Emperor didn't feel Luke most of all because he didn't know how to recognize Luke's force. There is also the distance was greater between Luke and him opposed to the one between Luke and Vader. And there was more people around Palpatine, drowning Luke's presence. If the Emperor and Luke had been in presence of each other earlier, he may have sensed him arrive. But it never happened. So what makes Palpatine believe he will sense Luke? Because he is overconfident in his abilities (it's my opinion and Luke's too, by the way).

This is the way I see the force. I realize it's a personal interpretation of what I see in the movies. You may see it another way and I respect that. But I think I'm right ;)"