| LIFE
AND DEATH IN THE PREQUELS |
|
DEC
21 - LIFE AND DEATH IN THE PREQUELS
DEC
21
SNS22
wrote: "When Obi-Wan dies in ANH and vanishes, Vader appears startled.
As if none of the Jedi's he has killed before have done that. My curiosity
is: did Obi-Wan put himself in some sort of trance, that allowed him to
die peaceful? If not, do only those Highly Honorable Jedi's die a virtually
painless death and disintegrate? Yoda did as well, but Luke had to burn
Anakin's body in Vader's armor.
Maybe
if Obi-Wan sees Quin Jinn's death (Although many have said that would be
"Too repetitive"), Maybe THAT will allow him to sacrifice himself to allow
Luke and The Others to escape in ANH. Maybe Quin-Jinn makes himself vulnerable,
so Darth Sideous attacks him, and in doing so gives Obi-Wan the perfect
opportunity to Kill Darth Sideous. Maybe Quin-Jinn will feel this is the
only way. But will he disappear? That is a question that I still wonder
about. Will Anakin see 'his father's' death?(I say it in that way, because
there is still some speculation about Quinn-Jinn being Anakin's father)..If
So, Quinn-Jinn CAN NOT disappear..Vader appears too stunned in ANH to have
Never seen that before.
Lucas
has to cover all his bases and not having any thing appear the slightest
bit contridictary..which still leaves me to say that 3-P0's memory banks
will HAVE to be erased during or after episode Three. While Artoo appears
to know EXACTLY where he is going on Tattoine in ANH, 3P0 doesn't have
a clue. While Obi-Wan CLAIMS to have no remembrance of R2 (He said he never
OWNED a droid), but still he shows no recognition of EITHER of them, like
he never MET either of them. He could be lying, or maybe he truly has forgotten
them after all this time. There are thousand of R2 units, and more than
likely 3PO will NOT have the same shell (even if he is blasted in episode
one), the appearance through all three films won't be the same as in the
original trilogy.
Which
leads me to say that his memory banks will have to be wiped. The blabbering
droid that he is, he would not have neglected to state his prior familiarity.
That is the least of reasons. More than likely R2 and 3PO will once again
be thrown in the middle of highly important events. Does anyone think Yoda
as wise as he is, and Ben as well, would want the blabbering 3PO walking
around with the knowledge of the whereabouts of Anakin's children? That
would be asking for disaster. Even though R2 can't leak information as
stupidly as 3P0, some of his memory banks will have to be blanked as well.
Darth Vader would no doubt have started a search for his own personal R2
unit, with the valuable information he (as Anakin) stored in it.. Chilling
Irony to the fact that R2 and Vader are NEVER in any scene together in
the original trilogy. It all fits to perfectly. I wasn't very surprised
to hear Anakin owned R2 just like Luke, the irony is too great. The Droids'
memory banks of Luke's whereabouts are wiped near the end or following
Episode three, only for them to fall back into Luke's hands in Episode
Four...
That
just leaves me with just ONE question. In the Novel Of Return Of The Jedi,
Palpatine asks Luke who completed his training...Reading Luke's thoughts,
Palpatine says "There was one called Yoda..an aged Jedi.....This Yoda lives
he still?"..During this whole conversation there is no response from Vader.
If Vader knew Yoda, wouldn't there have been some response on his part.
While this is only the novel, Lucas approved its inclusion. If Vader had
known about Yoda, don't you think he would have tried to kill Yoda during
The Jedi purge. And because he obviously didn't, don't you think he would
feel some sort of anger at his failure to wipe out the entire Jedi clan?
Then again he didn't show much anger at his failure to kill Kenobi..but
still I think he would have had shown some sign of knowing Yoda. Perhaps
Anakin never meets Yoda. Ben trains him himself, and then takes him before
The Council without Anakin ever having any formal meeting with Yoda...
And
If Jar Jar IS a Jedi, it will make Episode Three even more dark by seeing
one of the heroes killed in cold blood by Vader during the purge. Most
of he Jedis will probably be just aged masters that we barely know, but
if we were to see one we knew well, it will be as dark, if not darker than
Kenobi's death, because we saw Jar-Jar for THREE films, instead of one..." |
>
DEC 22 - REACTION 1
Zeke
Rice wrote: "I just have a few reactions to what SNS22 wrote.
Regarding
Darth Vader being stunned when Obi-Wan disappeared, I never interpreted
the scene that way. The obvious reason is that Vader's face is masked,
so how can you know what he's feeling. But more than that, there
didn't seem to be any body language to indicate "stunned." He didn't
leap back in horror at the sight of the robes falling to the floor....
Instead, he steps forward, onto the robes. When he steps on the robes,
I see that as both an act of triumph at his victory, and reassurance that
Obi-Wan is truly gone. This second point alludes to some possible
Prequel content: Perhaps during the Jedi purge, or maybe even the
death of Quin-Jin, a Jedi is struck down and disappears, only to turn up
alive later. Maybe it's a trick with the Force to disappear at the
time of "death" that Anakin witnessed in his childhood or when he was killing
Jedi later, so he knows to make sure that they're gone. Who knows....
And
about the droids' memories being erased, I think it's possible that they
weren't. First, 3PO doesn't know what planet he's on, so him saying
"What a desolate place this is" and not knowing where to go isn't a surprise,
because he doesn't realize he's been there before. R2 had just been
told by Leia where to go and who to deliver the message to. Second,
there is a scene early in ANH when 3PO is talking to Luke while Luke cleans
R2. Luke says 'you've seen a lot of action...'; 3PO says 'it's amazing
we're in this good shape, what with the Rebellion and all...'; Luke gets
all excited about the 'Rebellion against the Empire...' [paraphrases];
and R2 gives a little whistle and 3PO suddenly tones his story down.
I've always thought that whistle was a little reminder/warning to 3PO that
he was starting to talk about things that he's wasn't supposed to talk
about. It implies that they have been given orders not to speak of
something, and, well, at least R2 seems to be able to follow those orders
a little easier, because 3PO was about to blurt something out and R2 tries
to stop him. Then when Luke keeps asking questions, R2 shows him
a clip of the message from Leia, just enough of it to get Luke curious
and stop asking questions for a second, but not enough to give any of the
real message away. It's just a thought, and I know that the argument
is going to be "how likely is it that 3PO could keep his secret for 20-some
years?" answer: I dunno.
And
if Obi-Wan was lying when he says that he doesn't remember owning a droid,
it's not a big surprise, because he was keeping things from Luke right
from the beginning. The R2 statement would just be another part of
his point-of-view truth.
And
Yoda: Luke never told anyone where he was or who he was with when
he was on Dagobah. Only R2 knew. So if Obi-Wan didn't tell
Anakin about Yoda, it's not reallya surprise, because maybe Yoda
just keeps his existence a secret to all but a select few.
Just
my thoughts. Who knows...."
"P.S.
I was just copying names right from the SNS22 post, and I copied Qui-Gon's
name wrong. Sorry..." |
>
DEC 22 - REACTION 2
Christian
wrote: "I'd like to make a few comments on the "life and
death..."
topic.
1-
I could not affirm that Vader is surprised. One of the coolest things in
this character is that you DON'T KNOW what's going on. You can't predict
his reactions.
But,
we can either say he looks surprised because he HAD seen that before. He
actually SAW his father disapear in front of his eyes... maybe to save
Obi-Wan
We
can't either say Vader's body doesn't desintegreate. Check out that
SW - Technical commentaries page (you'll find a link in THE FORCE's
fanfiction area, to see the extent of Vader's past injuries, and how cybernetic
he is. We don't see any skin in the Viking funeral scene. It could be only
his body armour.
About
the Palpatine's comments on Yoda: we are not sure every Jedi was slaughtered.
Jews were not extinct durning WWII. We know there are many survivors: Yoda,
Ben, and that aged Jedi that gives Leia her saber in DarkHorse's comic
books (I don't remember the serie's name). This neither confirms or denies
any probability of a metting between Yoda, Anakin or Palpatine, but sures
breaks your arguments on the Jeid Purge. They wer not extinct. Some of
them simply dropped their swords and identities, and lived a normal, civil
life." |
>
DEC 22 - REACTION 3
James
McFadden wrote: "The recent comments on life and death in the prequels
was very interesting. The mention of R2 knowing Anakin and no one
else brought up a good point. I've been pointing out for months now that
R2 is the only major character not to have a scene with Vader. All the
main characters were with him on cloud city. When that door closes on R2
as Luke looks for Vader, it seems like it's a conscious effort to keep
him from seeing Vader.
On
the "Jedi purge" and Ben's death, I'm reminded of something in Dark Horse
comics. Now, I know they are not written by Lucas and they probably have
nothing to do with the prequels, but Kevin J Anderson had one interesting
part of Tales of the Jedi. When Exar Kun goes bad and becomes a Sith lord,
he orders that all his Sith students have to kill their Jedi masters.
Why this struck me was that it reminded of something in ANH. Vader is intent
on meeting Ben on his own and confronting him. He tells him he's the master
now, and it seems like this duel is supposed to happen. Now, sure, the
comic may have just picked up on this, but I found it to be interesting.
As
for the Jedi purge in the prequels, I envision this montage of scenes where
Jedi are betrayed and killed by their own, all over the galaxy on different
worlds. I would guess there are at least several "dark Jedi" or Sith around.
It could be even more tragic if Vader turns around and kills all this Sith
that helped him. Per the Emperor's orders of course." |
>
DEC 22 - REACTION 4
Zeke
Perez wrote: "I have some thoughts and ideas about the new topic added,
"Life and Death in the Prequels".
What I want to know is, what is going to happen to Padme?? I've seen
a lot of speculation about other charactures (Obi-Wan, Gungans, Sandpeople,
ect.) but the person who I feel is going to have the most influence in
the Prequels is Padme, the mother of Luke and Leia. In regards to
"Life and Death" topic, it seems that at the birth of Luke and Leia, the
only people which WILL DEFINETLY be alive is Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Padme,
who has to be alive to give birth to the children. True, it is possible
that Padme MAY die from childbirth, but how is it that Leia remembers her
REAL mother in Return of the Jedi? And plus, since this is the woman
who gave birth to Anakin Skywalker's children, don't you think that Anakin
is going to try to find where she is and hunt her down? If these
movies are going to have a "love triangle", with the hatred in Vader/Anakin,
why won't he try to kill the one person who caused this? It doesn't
make sense to me. There are a few things I feel must be true and
must be adressed to solve these questions. First, Padme must live.
Second, since Leia remebers her, she has to live sometime after the birth
of the children (perhaps on Alderaan with Leia??). Next, about this
speculation that Padme's people are suffering from a life-threatning diesease,
why aren't Luke and Leia dying from it, also. Is it going to be cured
by their birth?? Do they even have this disease?? Last, why
isn't Anakin/Vader hunting her down? Does he think she's dead, or,
even better, does he KNOW she's dead because he has killed her? Also,
is it going to be a true "love triangle", or just a hoax? I feel that the
quickest and easiest way for Anakin to give into hatred and anger is to
take away the one thing he loves the most....a true tragedy. That is the
perfect opportunity for Palpatine, to manipulate Anakin into thinking that
his friend and his wife are having an affar when they are not. What I'd
like to think will happen is that Obi-Wan, Padme, and Yoda escape the infamous
Obi-Wan/Anakin duel, the children are born, and, after some time, Padme
goes to face her husband/Vader to sway him to the light side of the force.
She tries, but they end up in a heated duel (like the Vader/Luke duel in
Return of the Jedi), and Padme is killed by Vader. Despite there
having to be a time laspe between the birth of the children and that duel,
at least then it explains how their mother dies, and, more importainly,
why Vader/Anakin is so sure of the fact that he cannot be brought back
to the light side. If the woman he loved was not able to do it, then
how could his child?
I feel a lot of the events in these new films are going to be based around
Padme relationship with Anakin. This characture is going to be VERY
importain, probably, next to Anakin, THE most importain characture.
I'd really like to hear your opinions and ideas on these thoughts." |
>
DEC 23 - REACTION 5
Jedi
Knight wrote: "In reaction to Christian's Reaction, I remember in one of
the Star Wars books (I think Darksaber) said when Luke was thinking about
what happens when Jedi die, he remembers what happened to Anakin, Yoda
and Ben. He said they vanished. Or when you watch ANH during the Lightsaber
battle, take a good look and see what happens when Vader goes to slice
Ben down... He is gone even before then." |
>
DEC 23 - REACTION 6
The
Anonymous One wrote: "Lucas has stated that his two biggest fears for Ep
2 and 3 are that most of the good guys die and the bad guys win in the
end. Conventional wisdom holds that the average movie goer doesn't
like to see heroes die and they don't like to see the bad guys win.
But personally, I was hoping the Empire was going to win in ROTJ.
Consequently, Ep 3 will probably be my favorite episode." |
>
JAN 11 - REACTION 7
Nathaniel
Reed wrote: "As stated previously, Lucas suggests ( Anno. Screenplays )
that the merging with the Force is something that has to be learnt, and
that Ben accomplishes this before *4. I agree that Vader is only making
sure of his victory on the Death Star, but also, rather than be 'surprised'
as such, is more puzzled ; continuity howler perhaps when Anakin does this
at the end of ROTJ, although early drafts suggested that Ben and Yoda were
waiting 'on the other side' to 'catch' him. But then *only* the films are
gospel, and perhaps it's something all Jedi can do." |